August 7, 2003
2003 U.S. Women’s Amateur
Gladwyne , Pennsylvania
An Interview with:
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : It can be a condition of the competition, the committee can put in the competition.
Q. It is a condition of the competition. The players were given the sheet. It was also announced to the players, too?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : It's on the entry that they signed when they enter The Championship .
Q. The little form that when any enter the USGA ?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : I think it's on there that transportation is not allowed. Let me look. Perhaps it's on the hard card. There we go.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Transportation: Players shall walk at all times during a stipulated round. The optional condition described in Appendix 1 of the rules shall be in effect.
Q. So what she did, as I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, is she had to pop into the locker room after the 9th, she completed the 9th?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Correct. That's the way I understand it. That's the way I understand it.
Q. As she was heading back down to the 10th tee, a volunteer or someone said, "Hop in, I will give you a ride." Neither of them realize what they were doing?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Right.
Q. They got down to the 10th, they hit their tee shots, one of them played their second shot?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Maru played her second shot.
Q. At that point what happened?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Well, I mean, I wasn't there. I was listening to all of this over the radio. But it's my understanding that then it was brought to the referee's attention that Maru , did ride in a cart from the locker room, or wherever, to the 10th tee. And she asked me what the situation was then. Was that a problem?
Q. She being the rules official with the group?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : The referee, that's correct.
Q. Can you tell us that was?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : Dee Dee Forbes .
Q. Just a volunteer rules official?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN : She is on the Women's committee .
Q. And then, so what do they do next? I heard 2 accounts. One is that when they told her when they lost the hole they went to the 11th tee?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: I told Dee Dee that it was a loss of hole and for them to just go to the 11th tee. And I was corrected, as you all probably know we have several higher echelon of the USGA here today and I was informed, Maggie that's not a loss of hole penalty, it is an add-on penalty, just like if you were to carry too many clubs on a hole.
So what should have been done was they play the hole out, and then Maru , her status, they would have taken one hole off of her status.
Q. Regardless of how she did obviously on that hole. If she won that hole and had been 3-up, it would have been 3-up and then one more taken off for 2-up?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: That's right. We call it an add-on penalty. It says penalty for the breach of this condition. At the conclusion of the hole at which the breach is discovered the state of the match shall be adjusted by deducting one hole for each hole at which a breach occurred. Maximum deduction per round, 2 holes. So that's the same penalty statement that's under the too many clubs.
Q. To say it's a loss of hole is not correct?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: No, that's not correct. It's a deduction of a hole.
Q. Is that why they then went back and played?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: That's right. Since I told them wrong, then the players were absolved for any penalties of picking up their ball. I mean the referee told them through me. And so since Michelle was in the fairway, she dropped. She didn't know the exact spot where her ball previously laid.
Q. Any didn't tee off again, they went back?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: They had to play the 10th hole, you know. You have to play that hole and then the penalty is applied at the end of it.
Q. So Michelle went back to drop as close as she could where Maru was?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Maru was on the putting green so she went back, and since she was on the putting green she placed as near as she could.
Q. She wasn't on the putting green, I saw her drop it as well.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Okay, so she dropped again. I was told she was on the putting green.
Q. Just out of curiosity, who corrected you on that?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: I had about 3 corrections out there. It was Jeff Hall and Tom Meeks .
Q. Is he here, Tom Meeks ?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Yes. We had the big guys today.
RHONDA GLENN: He left.
Q. In all of my years I never heard of this penalty?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Nor have I.
RHONDA GLENN: I have seen it done a couple of times on the LPGA , come out of the locker room, it's 2 strokes.
Q. When they were on the 11th tee, they didn't hop on the cart and walk back, they would have had to walk back?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: The players can get in a cart like if they have a lost ball. But it's by a rules official that takes them back. Then a rules official, in order to save time, would take them back to the tee, let her hit another ball and then take her back up.
Q. The volunteer who gave her the ride, did he or she feel awful?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: I don't have a clue. I don't know who it was. I don't know. It could have be ESPN. I don't know.
Q. We don't know for a fact it was a volunteer?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: No.
Q. Who informed the committee of the breach?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: I don't know. I don't know who told Dee Dee.
Q. But she radioed you?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Yes. Maybe she saw it. I would have thought that she would have seen her come to the tee, so I'm unclear on that.
Q. You say it's the same, an add-on penalty is similar to if there were too many clubs in the bag, so too many clubs in the bag isn't a loss of hole, it's a deduction of the hole?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: That's right. It's what we call an add-on penalty. So, you know, if you discover you got an extra club in the bag, play hard that hole, because that hole is still going to count.
Q. In stroke play it's a 2 stroke, correct?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Correct.
Q. In Match Play it's not a loss of a hole?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: That's right.
Q. But isn't it in Match Play up to two holes; say if you discovered this on the fifth hole that you got too many clubs, you still only lose two holes, correct, maximum?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Right. I mean I know we had one fellow, Rhonda wasn't -- that road in the cart at one of our qualifiers. I don't know, I'm not going to go there.
RHONDA GLENN: The same deal.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Yes, I'm not positive.
Q. Do you tell your people now don't give anybody a ride or anything? You know what I mean, will you do that?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Well, I hope that the club got the word out to their volunteers that, you know, thanks for your hospitality and generosity, but you know when these gals are playing, that you should not.
RHONDA GLENN: USGA helps train marshals. You usually have one big training session before the start of the championship. It could be that that marshal was not paying attention at that time or didn't attend that training session because that's one of the things that they make clear.
Q. Do we know whether it was a hard card where they were shown this? Was she surprised when you told her about it?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: I didn't tell her about it. See, I wasn't there. Dee Dee told her about it. I don't know.
Q. Dee Dee told her about it?
RHONDA GLENN: I asked Dee Dee that at lunch. I said how did it go over when you announced there was a penalty. She said it did not go over well.
Q. I'm not surprised.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Do we have a hard card?
RHONDA GLENN: I printed from the hard card on to the press release that I gave. They have that much.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: It's the local rules and conditions of our competitions. Do you have a notice to players?
RHONDA GLENN: Yes. I had it over here and I copied it on that release.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: It should be on the back of that.
RHONDA GLENN: This was in the notice to competitors, and they got that. And then this is from the rules's golf.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Okay.
Q. So this goes out to them when they sign up to play?
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Well, it's first on the entry blank and then when they arrive at the championship and register they get this one rule sheet which is like local rules and special stipulations for the championship and it's up to them to read.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Let me run out, I will be back.
Q. What is her title?
RHONDA GLENN: Director of Women's Rules and Competition.
Q. Is she a volunteer or staff?
RHONDA GLENN: Staff. She is a former player in all of these championships.
MAGGIE GIESENHAGEN: Here is the notice to competitors that we give to the players, or notice to players, because this is Match Play , and on the back of that we put our hard card. Now these conditions are in effect for all USGA championships, whether it's the Girl's Junior, Men's Open and there is the transportation.
RHONDA GLENN: Maru, this is not her first USGA championship. She knows she has to read that. It was a slip up, an inadvertent infraction I'm sure.
RHONDA GLENN: Thank you.
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